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| 7 seasons of Voyager; I'm really planning to watch it all | |
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| Topic Started: 23 Aug 2008, 02:59 (2,215 Views) | |
| sipovic | 23 Aug 2008, 02:59 Post #1 |
Cultist
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At least I've got all 7 seasons of Voyager so now I beginning to watch a whole show from the start not just some episodes from some seasons. And I decide to share my opinion a little about what I saw. I think it would be fun. 1x01-02 The Caretaker The Weakest Trek pilot I've ever saw, even worse then TNG pilot.As John Crichton says once :"Please,just not God like aliens! Everything but God like aliens!". The whole plot was pretty lame, especially "village people scenes" which looks absolutely unappropriate. Captain Janeway however scaries me much stronger than a bad plot. It is not just bad captain, it is simply the WORST trek character I ever saw. Absolutely everything about her is horrible - beginning with scary voice of a woman who drinks and smokes a lot and her "25 year of school teacher experience" haircut ending with FACE she makes each time she makes a "HARD DECISION" or in "difficult moments". And of course the last nail in the coffin became her "noble decision" to blown up a caretaker because "it doesn't feel right" for her. Ana her words that going home is secondary and the FIRST thing is exploring. WHY? FOR WHO? FOR WHAT? It looks dumb even for Star Trek universe. The rest of the crew didn't make very good impression too. They didn't have a character for whom you may sympathize, because of whom you will look even worst episodes till end. Neelix of course is my second "favourite" after Janeway. Except doctor who simply was the best in what was shown in Pilot even if he appears only 3 times for 90 minutes. And all new aliens which supposed to be substitude for "old school" like klingons, vulcans and all other are simply horrible. I suppose it takes a lot of time to invent spicies who "looks like vulcans but their ears are a little different" and "somebody wo would act like klingons but with something nasty on their heads". In total I can give 4/10 for really great opening titles and music theme, Doctor, a few battle scenes, Tuvok(love vulcans even not very impressive ones can't do anything with myself :biggrin: ) and possibilities that things will go better. 1x03 Parallax This episode was much better than previous. First it gives an opportunity to knew crew a little better, and second there was no ugly aliens which annoys me so much. And for the second episode the plot was also OK. Singularity and shrinking doctor was a nice background for a plot of choosing a chief engineer. I can't say do I like B'Elena Torres or not. She like 2 characters in one - an adequate professional in one moment and a angry bitching woman in the next. Well at least controversial characters are always intersting. I hope she'll keep all her controversy for next episodes and it was not one time thing. I also like Chakotay standing for her, showing that even as captain's lapdog he has a limits of how he can be pushed around. This is a problem I see with Chakotay. When he is a superior officer in room he is strong, intelligent leader. But when Janeway came into room - all this vanishes in a moment. And where this strong leader of former criminals hides in these moments? I give this episode 6/10 but I'm still suffering from one question - Will Janeway make Torres a chief engineer on the same basis if she punched not some background character but Janeway herself? 1x04 Time And Again Bad reset button episode with HAPPY ENDING. 2 things annoys me most of all. First - Janeway(as usual it would be I suppose) at first she talked about not interfering policy but when they was on planet which will be destoy in few hours she few times tried to prevent it and than in the end when she finally save this planet by INTERFERENCE (a right which she denied to Paris who was her companion) her last word to Kess was "that's why we aren't enterfering" which was completely stupid. And second thing - what writers are doing with Paris character. what point of character from prison if he act as all other but with joke? He must be some kind of traitor and criminal. Eventually during season or two he might evolve in better person. But no. He already saved child in 3rd (!!!) episode . The funny thing is - it was pointless, because with Janeway interference everything resets and if she wouldn't interfere this boy will be dead in 10 minutes anyway from explosion. It looks like nobody really understand temporal mechanics :vulcan:. 2/10 |
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| Kevin Thomas Riley | 23 Aug 2008, 15:46 Post #2 |
Jolene Blalock Worshipper
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All of VOY and from the beginning, huh? You're a brave man! Is this your first VOY viewing, sipovic? |
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| sipovic | 24 Aug 2008, 03:27 Post #3 |
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Cultist
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I saw about 10 episodes from different seasons before so I have some opinion about VOY before, but there were episodes from different seasons. So I'm watching a show from the beginning for the first time
You sound like it would be a challenge). It takes 3 month from me to watch all DS9. So I suppose I can handle another Trek show. And while I'm waiting for answers on my jobs resume I have a lot of free time... Edited by sipovic, 24 Aug 2008, 04:05.
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| sipovic | 24 Aug 2008, 04:02 Post #4 |
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Cultist
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1x05 Phage I found idea of stealing lung was quite orignal and intersting but I was absolutely outraged by Janeway solution of a problem. What a point to chase bad guys and then not punish them in any way? She really decide to allowed her own crewman to die and after these aliens practicaly commit murder she allow them to leave, even not confiscating all their other implants, not confiscating their weapon and just telling them that they regret in their next meeting. I even don't know how to discribe such kind of captain. 4/10 1x06 The Cloud Average episode. Again typical Janeway behaviour (which was wonderfully pointed by Doctor) run thru cloud at first, fire phasers and rockets than explore what it was. B-plots with french bar and animal guide were more enteresting. I suppose this is the first time when I liked something about Neelix. His speech in the kitchen about"...people on this ship are idiots , and that it is impossible to care about crew and risk their lives without any good reason each time" (his words not mine) was like he read my mind. Too bad that it continued only 30 minutes. 5/10 1x07 Eye Of The Needle This episode was better than previous. Even if the plot wasn't original and there was no action here, it has an emotional degree. It was plesurable to see Vaughn Armstrong as romulan scientist from other side of wormhole and it's good that scriptwriters shown that not all romulans are evil. Even if it was obvious that Voyager's crew couldn't escape thru wormhole I suppose time difference on both sides wormhole was a original turn instead just some kind of collapse. Even Janeway was ok in this episode. So I can qualify it above average. 6/10 1x08 Ex Post Facto "Private detective Tuvok show" didn't get me at all. Not much intrigue, not much suspense, not much to say. 4/10 1x09 Emanation I have one word for this episode "Boredom". Without doubt I have much more interesting things in my life then looking about 25 minutes how Harry Kim tried to persuade everybody to send him back to Voyager. And what a point of this episode anyway? Writers shows us that there no afterlife but in the last 2 minutes Janeway told us that "may be there is something there after all". 45 minutes of my life were stolen and I just want them back! 1/10 1x10 Prime Factors It's simply unbelievable! This episode got 3 horrible element at once: 1) Ugly Riza clone 2)Janeway "romance for an hour" 3)Janeway stupidity. She got unofficial proposal to trade literature database for a half way home and she declined it because "it is against her principles". All crew were for this trade but our principal Captain prefer to ignore it. When Tuvok made a trade instead say him "thank you for act like a real captain instead of me" Janeway simply lecture him. I don't know what kind of friendship between them but I'm for sure I don't want to have a friend like Katheryn Janeway. 1/10 1x11 State Of Flux I suppose it is a first really good VOY episode. It really got an intrigue almost till end who was the traitor Seska or the other engineer. I suppose Seska character isn't something unique but I suppose that is what most part of maquis crew must be. They're criminals for god sake! They simply couldn't be 100% integrated into voyager crew in the middle of 1st season! It was a really surprise to know that Seska is a cardassian agent. It gave show a connection with all other Star Trek (the connection I suppose which was desperately needed) It also gave show at least some kinda villain (I'm sure that Seska will appear again). What i found curious is the reason which makes Seska turn agains Voyager - unadequate captain's action (which is hard to disagree). Of couse give technology to Kazon wasn't a good idea but when somebody is desperade ( and I could easily imagine such despair of ever returning home under Janeway command) he or she tried to do anything that possible. I give this episode 7/10. Edited by sipovic, 24 Aug 2008, 04:12.
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| sipovic | 25 Aug 2008, 03:54 Post #5 |
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Cultist
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1x12 Heroes And Demons Standart "transporter mulfunction" episode. Good that Doctor took most part on screen which allows him to gave a few funny moments. But all "Beowulf" scenes were very slow and most of them were pretty stupid also. 4/10 1x13 Cathexis A classical "alien posession" episode. What is really good about them is that they usually contains a lot of action and interesting situations. This episode is not exception. The fact that Tuvok was taken by alien from the beginning and "Chakotay's soul" on the other hand tries to save Voyager by taken crew in posession was an intersting idea. What I really found intersting in this Episode is that Janeway even of duty couldn't spend her free time without trying to tell other what to do (I refer to her Holodeck entertaiment as teacher) 6/10 1x14 Faces The only interesting thing of this episode was of course a good Roxann Dawson perfomance( I must say I like her more without klingon make -up) both as human and klingon. It allows to know more about her character and her past. The way of how her Klingon part make her stronger and how her human part couldn't leave without her darker klingon half remind me of classical TOS episode with good/evil Kirk. It also allowed to begin some kind of Paris/Torres relationship. I know that eventually they would be together but it is 14th episode and so far they changes phrases only once or twice. I suppose it could be a good start. All rest of episode was absolutely uninteresting. 5/10 1x15 Jetrel It strongly reminded me DS9's "Duet" with of course serious difference in quality. The biggest problem of this episode was Neelix. It simply impossible to take a character who acted like "funny idiot" for a full season and than instantly transformed into some damaged war victim with problems seriously. I also find it impossible to take seriously anybody who looks like Neelix (a horrible producers mistake which forever banned Neelix from digging his character deeper and forever make him just "a funny idiot"). It's especially pity because both Ethan Philips and James Sloyan gave a very good perfomance. But the amazing chemistry which worked between Visitor/Julin in "Duet" didn't work here. Well at least they didn't bring victims of war back to live. So it's simply a decent episode with nothing special. 6/10 1x16 Learning Curve You know I feel disappointment. It looks like there are only 3 reasons to keep Tuvok on the show: to investigate crimes, to teach somebody something (usually about discipline) or make a mind meld. This seriously put down his character transform him from character to some kind of tool. I don't feel any good about "Tuvok's police academy". Instead making a serious episode about maquis lack of training and discipline (which must be in the beginning of the show not in the last episode of season) they made some lame comedy with happy ending. I don't even speaking about season finale must make some grip on viewers to ignite their desire to see what happen in the next season. At least something important must happen in it. And what we got here? Tuvok running crosses with bunch of losers who eventually saved his live and "voi la!" all problems were solved. 4/10 Season 1 overview: I suppose I could call a first season of VOY as a "disaster".Average episode rating is 4,33. I could count only 5 of 15 episodes as acceptable level and only one of them as a not bad. Quality of the show is simply uncompareable with 1st seasons of ENT, DS9 or even TNG. Creators of VOY failed in all possible ways. They couldn't provide an interesting new universe instead Klingons, Romulans and etc (my God, I even miss Ferengi), they couldn't provide even average universe. Kazons, Okampa, folks who steal organs - it all is so lame that only thing you want to do is to forget about their existence. They couldn't provide an interesting crew. Instead they gave the worst Captain ( or may be simply the worst character) in trek history. Chakotay could possibly be interesting but only when he is senior officer on the screen. Paris too unstable - in one episode he is a "bad boy" in next " a perfect officer", almost the same thing with B'Elana Torres, as I say previous they use Tuvok more like calculator more then as a character, You may cut Kess from all first season and you couldn't even notice it, you may cut all Neelix from first season and show would probably benefits from it. Ensign Kim is simply not interesting. The few good things that I saw in 1st season were : really good music theme and opening credits (which are much better than DS9 credits) Doctor character (but he is alone and he not always have a lot of scenes in each episodes), and may be good special effects (but I seriously couldn't see anything that was better than in DS9). I hope second season would be better, because honestly I don't know how to make Voyager even worse. Edited by sipovic, 25 Aug 2008, 05:03.
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| sipovic | 26 Aug 2008, 03:45 Post #6 |
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Cultist
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2x01 The 37's When I first saw an old car in space I've already knew that it wouldn't mean anything good. It looks like producers and writers didn't learn lessons of first season. Did they really want us to believe that some kinda aliens travelled from delta quadrant to alpha quadrant to steal 300 people to make them slaves? Wasn't it simpler to get slaves from nearby planet? With such kind of power they could easily conquer Earth. It simply imposible thing to believe. And than of course Captain Janeway make her move. She didn't ask anybody to blow up the Caretaker or not, she didn't ask anybody when she rejected the deal which may cost Voyager a half way home, but here instantly she felt an obligation to allow her crew to stay if they wish with some kinda of "37's" ancestors which number is only 100,000 they're not technically advanced (if they even didn't understand what cryostasis is) and didn't know anything about their lifes except that they live "in 3 beautiful cities" (it supposed about 30,000 people in each - quite a small city I must say) and she REALLY WAS SURPRISED when she found that nobody from the crew desired to live in unknown and unprotect place wiht people they didn't know. What can I say? What a wonderful captain! It looks like the only reason for this episode to be is to show us that Voyager could make a landing. 1/10 2x02 Initiations This episode really bored me. I hata Kazons and their presents almost automaticaly guaranteed that I wouldn't like this episode. Each Star Trek show have such episode with Federation character stuck somewhere with character of some hostile race and "despite of mutual distrust and suspisons their combined work allow them to earn each other respect". I found Chakotay acted adequate ( as I say before he is usually not bad when he is alone) but Kazons... It looks like this race coundn't be adequate more than five minutes.I hope the day we'll see them for the last time come soon. Except Aron Eisenberg and Patrick Kilpatrick appearances there were nothing intersting about this. Too bad that first Chakotay centered episode was so lame. 2/10 2x03 Projections It took for producers almost half year to bring another good VOY episode. And of course The Doctor was a center of the story. Even if was pretty obvious that all it was some kind of Doctor's program mulfuncrion it still was very interesting to watch. I especially enjoyed the scenes where Doctor was returned to Pilot episode and erased Paris program. I never liked Barklay character but must confess that he fitted very well in this concrete situation. He had quite good chemistry with Doctor. If creators didn't push "last temptaition of the Doctor" scene too hard, I may grade this episode even higher than 7/10. 2x04 Elogium "Elogium" was simply the worst VOY episode so far. Voyager 90210 begun with horrible love triangle between Kess-Neelix-Paris.I absolutely don't understand what kind of relationships are between Kess and Neelix. Are they friends? Are they lovers? Are they couple? WIthout direct answer it especially stupid to make episodes like this. What also I can't understand is how viewer can like or at least tolerate characters like KEss and Neelix, while first began to eat dirt, bugs and flowers and second behave so annoyngly that I Doctor throw him from sickbay by force. And it just description of first 15 minutes. All Kess pregnancy was so horrible that I don't know so many english dirt words to discribe it so I give a rate 1/10 and just stop myself there. 2x05 Non Sequitur I can't understand it at all. This is almost the same episode that was with doctor (I'm talking about "Projection" of course) but this time it was Harry Kim who "wokes up and something strange happens". It must be really unadequate people to put 2 almost identical episode one after another. The only good thing about this episode was an opportunity to look at "bad boy" Paris. 3/10 Edited by sipovic, 26 Aug 2008, 04:00.
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| Captain X | 26 Aug 2008, 06:54 Post #7 |
"Vice" Admiral
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Also known as the plot of the movie Enemy Mine. ;) |
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| sipovic | 27 Aug 2008, 02:17 Post #8 |
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Cultist
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Not really a bad movie if I remeber(with Dennis Quaid). It's nice to know that somebody watch over me) . I try to make my grammatical mistakes less obvious. |
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| sipovic | 27 Aug 2008, 02:44 Post #9 |
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Cultist
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2x06 Twisted It was a controversial episode for me. I found the idea to be lost on their own ship interesting but because of this all crew spend half of episode simply walking around. With Janeway injury almost all characters got an opportunity to develop relationships ( good Tuvok/Chakotay scene about ranks and nice Chakotay/Torres, Paris/Kim friendship scenes). From the other side without supercaptain crew coundn't find any solution (thing that pisses many people of in ENT). But I suppose I don't remember any of Trek episodes where characters just sitted and waited how it would end. I must say that I rather enjoyed that episode than not especially after such 2 stinkers ("Elogium" & "Non Sequirum"). 6/10 2x07 Parturition The returning of Voyager 90210. At least they finished this stupid KEss/Neelix/PAris love triangle. Honestly don't know what everybody found so attractive about her character. Yes, she's cute but her lack of charisma is pretty obvious. As usual Captain JAneway made a new standart of starfleet idioticy sending on away mission 2 people who fought 15 minutes before it without even somebody to be between them. Alien egg story was also lame. Only two bright moments in this episode - a good scene between Kim and Paris in the beginning and new Janeway haircut which made her look like less as a school teacher. 2/10 2x08 Persistence Of Vision Another lame episode. Didn't writers get tired from this telepathic super aliens with motivation "because I can"? BUt except bad script there were a lot of other things. For example, they degraded Chakotay again. I tooks him only 5 minutes acting as captain to lost a space battle. Meanwhile Janeway is seeing hallucinations all the time, disobeys doctor's orders, leaving sickbay, get to the bridge and take command of the ship. And everybody acts like it is a normal thing. Also stayed unexplainable how exactly Kess defeat alien simply by looking at him. The only surprise of episode was B'Elana's feeling toward Chakotay. But I suppose that is something everybody will forget at next week. 3/10 Edited by sipovic, 27 Aug 2008, 02:54.
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| sipovic | 28 Aug 2008, 03:33 Post #10 |
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Cultist
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2x09 Tattoo It looks like one of the most important missions of second season is to abuse Chakotay character in each possible way. This episode was an opportunity to now more about this character. It seems it would be better if I wouldn't know. Chakotay has always been demonstated as knower of indian culture. It was one of the most important part of his gimmick. And what we knew here? That he'd never really believed in indian customs and traditions, before his father's death he even denied it. He chose to be "indian" just because he didn't know what else to do, he made his face tattoo without fully understand it meaning. It hardly could be taken as "character development". I found alien influence on indians was also to lame. First aztecs, now it's indians. Isn't it to much alien influence for a one small planet? But b-plot with doctor made himself seek was not bad. So I give it 4/10. 2x10 Cold Fire This episode must be much better. First of all I supposed that appearance of second Caretaker would be a big general storyline or even season (may be even series) finale. Instead we have just usual episode. The idea that second Caretaker wanted to revenge for the dead of her companion was good but realization was simply poor. I suppose alien with such powers could do much more dramatizing that hurting Janeway in engineering. And after Janeway restrained her with some kind of technobabble and then released her she simply dissappeared without any explanation. Did it mean revenge stay in past? Will she comeback? IT simply not right to throw away a story like that. But of course the best part of episode was Gary Graham (our favourite Soval) wonderful acting. This guy has such unexplainable charisma when his face stood still or when he made a little smirk. Still can believe producers prefered Kate Mulgrew over him to display Captain Janeway (Gary Graham was one of the top candidates on role of Captain Janeway. I suppose it would be absolutely different VOY than). But I didn't enjoy all this Kess "Jedi Training". I found extremely doubtful that species who usually live for 9 years could even possible develop such strong telepathic abilities. Overall I give this episode 5/10 for a Gary Graham perfomance. 2x11 Maneuvers This episode begun interesting when Seska stole a teleporter but then it ended with degradation of Chakotay. Again. I'm really getting tired to write the same phrase again and again. Could script writers pick another character to abuse? HE felt himself personal responsible. HE reacted inadequately, disobeys orders and went after Seska alone. And HE was the person Voyager saved in the end. And a Seska pregnancy plot was absolutely bad and inappropriate. I must say that Martha Hackett looked a little bigger than last time. So i suppose all of this may happen because of real actress pregnancy. At least I want to believe in that. As for Chakotay/Seska chemistry it simply didn't work. 4/10 2x12 Resistance I think such kind of episode wasn't good for VOY. This was typical DS9's stuff. They made a lot of episodes about harsh political regimes and victims of it. The actor who played old man who took care about Janeway played wondefully but I couldn't escape a thought that I saw all it before. I couldn't believe of what they've done with Tuvok. A vulcan screamed on interrogations? T'pol never screamed during tortures, Spock never screamed and Soval reacted strongly only because of special device against vulcans. I suppose it was some cheap trick to make us feel sympathy for Tuvok but for me it worked strongly against him. But in total it was average episode. 5/10 Edited by sipovic, 28 Aug 2008, 04:00.
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| sipovic | 29 Aug 2008, 05:19 Post #11 |
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Cultist
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2x13 Prototype It was extremely lame episode. Horrible plot with race of robots looked more appropriate in some trash sci-fi movies of 70th but not in 1996. Producers even didn't want to spend a adequate amount of money for robots make-up. They simply give some guy an irom mask and told us :" this is robot". And all this happened almost at the beginning of 21st century. I want to forget it as soon as possible. 1/10 2x14 Alliances I found this episode to be a special. This is a first VOY episode with bad idea which turns in normal story. The idea of alliance with Kazons was pretty stupid. First of all, Kazons are not to be trusted, second of all, I sincerely doubt that any Kazons tribe would make a alliance with Voyager without giving them technologies. Because as war ally Voyager is not very exiting(before Voyager coudn't stand agains 3 Kazon ships). But then story got a very intriguing turn. I found Kazon's origins as a slave race of Trabe very believable. It expalained many thing about them - their anger, their lack of technologies. And I was really surprised when Trabes tricked Janeway and tried to kill all Kazon leaders( scene looks very much familiar with scene from "Godfather 3"). So even Janeway's behaviour couldn't spoil much my fun. 6/10 2x15 Threshold It was simply a bad episode. I possibly could even accept the plot like "Paris travelled on warp 10 and then transformed in some other species". He had a great scene with doctor in sickbay. But I couldn't even imagine such horrible ending. Janeway and Paris transformed into fishes and procreated. I even don't know what to say. 2/10 2x16 Meld It looks like it is almost impossible for VOY creators to make a stable good episode. so what we've got here: wonderful idea - one crewmember was killed by another just because he is a violent person. Not because he is bad, but because he is violent. How rare such gifts of controversiality from Black And White Star Trek universe! Brad Dourif proved again that he is wonderful actor ( I remember he played a serial killer in one episode of X-files. It was one of the best maniacs I've ever saw) and illustate a very creepy character who could really made me nervous with this linses in his eyes. And after such a great start, instead of dealing with Brad Dourif's character they turned to Tuvok and absolutely unnecessary "bad mind meld" plot which ruined all interest of this story. So I can give only 6/10 and as Janeway said to Tuvok :"From this moment - no mind melds!". At least till the end of season. 2x17 Dreadnought They remebered DS9 episode with Maquis Smart Rockets. It may be even counted as cross promotion. But in total episode was pretty boring. All this dialogues between Torres and computer of Rocket wasn't entertaining. Much more interesting was a strange tention which begun between PAris and Chakotay in previous episode (Paris Totalisator)and continued here. I coudn't understand why Paris suddenly begame "a bad guy" and what most important I don't understand how it supposed to end happily.Isn't it a little to late for such kinda story? We're in the middle of second season and not first. And why Chakotay lectioned Paris about duty and not or beloved Captain? It supposed to be her trademark. 4/10 |
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| sipovic | 1 Sep 2008, 04:25 Post #12 |
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Cultist
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2 days of rest and I'm ready to continue with Voyager: 2x18 Death Wish One Q want to commit suicide, other Q (John de Lance) tries to stop him. This episode supposed to be fun and even intellectual. This episode supposed to raise many questions as "helping in suicide","person's freedom and state power". It simply didn't. I think the biggest mistake here was to give Q-characters some deepness. WE used to treat them as funny (most time) but absolutely uncapable of something serious characters. And it simply hard to swallow when 2 Qs acted like idiots for 40 minutes and then in last 5 minutes they begun to act as dramatic characters. Another mistake was to show us a Q-world. It pretty obvious that people who created Voyager simply uncapable of showing how world of superpowerful immortal being must look. They simply didn't have enough taste and fantasy. And remark like "human mind could comprehend Q-continuum only in way of crossroad in the middle of a desert" didn't buy them salvation. John De Lance was good as usual ("Madam Captain" was wonderful) but his crush on Janeway was pretty pathetic. Other Q was very casual and boring and didn't give me any reason to give him my sympathy. I can't count this episode higher then 4/10. 2x19 Lifesigns A bad episode. "Romance for an hour" but this time for the Doctor. Despite of how hard I tried to entertain myself with Doctor I simply couldn't. Even he couldn't help this episode. As for B-plot, I continue to enjoy the PAris/Chakotay tension which goes higher and higher but still couldn't understand to what purpose does it serve. 2/10 2x20 Investigations So all this Paris/Chakotay thing and Paris leaving of Voyager was a set up to find a spy on ship. It could count as an acceptable solution. It also explains why Janeway didn't interfere in this situation before. But it was 2 things which buried this episode. First all of it was shown thru horrible "Neelix-reporter" plot. And second - the idioticy of how they found a spy. So what was the plan? Paris allowed Kazons to capture him, then he used some kind of technobabble on some console (how he chose this console btw?) saw a picture of a traitor, then ALONE he disabled all security, stole a shuttle and returned to Voyager all by himself. I suppose this plan is horrible even for Janeway. 5/10 Edited by sipovic, 1 Sep 2008, 05:02.
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| sipovic | 2 Sep 2008, 10:09 Post #13 |
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Cultist
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2x21 Deadlock There are only 3 ways to make a good "reset button": 1) make an interesting story in which reset button will look as logical thing 2) make an emotional connection with audience and make this episode exactly for one dramatical moment 3)explore an INTERESTING possibility of what might have been with places or characters. This episode failed in all 3 ways . A story about how after coming through time fracture voyager get a duplicate didn't intrigued me (and possibly anybody) at all. And moment when Janeway-2 blown up her ship to save first voyager didn't touch me alsol. Plot with Samantha Wildman giving birth also wasn't dramatical or intersting. They even used a horrible reset button cliche, when Janeway-2 send Harry Kim-2 on first ship (Kim-1 died) because she though "it would be fair(!!!)"( intersting why it wasn't fair for all other crewmembers who died). And in the end he acted like nothing serious ever happened. 4/10 2x22 Innocence I didn't like "Innocence". At the beginning it was too much similar to "Learning Curve" but instead maquis losers it was kids. This episode revealed a lot about Tuvok and his family (for example I was surprised to know that Tuvok doesn't believe in immortality of Kartra), but I didn't find cute Tuvok singing lullabies. It looked to unappropriate and unnatural. But I was surpise when it was revealed that children wasn't really children but elders who came to die at this asteroid and I find last scene between Tuvok and little girl even a little touching. Still it didn't save it. 5/10 2x23 The Thaw There is something about this episode. It was not so simple as it looked like. Of course the story of program took hostages people in statis wasn't very intriguing especially when this program looked like circus. But more I looked it more I understood that I mostly entertained by what I saw. Michael McKean who played Fear did his job wonderfully. He reminded me of Joker (not from "Dark Knight" of course but from classical Tim Burton's movie) even his make-up was very similar. Of course there were a lot of distasteful moments which is hard to avoid when it is circus in Sci-fi but I enjoyed they way they displayed Fear and his wish to be conquered. And the last scene where Janeway hologram and Fear both slowly dissappeared in the dark was simply briliant. Of course all this was just a moments but they allowed me to give "The Thaw" 6/10. 2x24 Tuvix "Tuvix" was a horrible, horrible, horrible episode. May be one of the worst Trek episode ever. At first Tuvix as a character was awful. He was boring as Tuvok and annoying as Neelix at the same time. After Neelix/Tuvok became one person all rest of episode was boring and lame attempt of Tuvix to be accepted. Of course, he was doomed from the beginning so for me it was just waiting to see how he would be split up in 2 persons again. And when it finally became a time for kill Tuvix Janeway stunned me as she usually does. She hesitated. The most intriguing - if she had an opportunity to split up Tuvix immidiately after accident she'll do it without doubt. But because he SPEND SOME TIME WITH THEM, she is not sure anymore. Does it mean that Life for Janeway have a value only if it exists for some tome? Or what? But what stunned me most of all it's Tuvix. If he really was combination of Tuvok - a vulcan who always does right things and Neelix - who always been tried to illustrate by producers as good guy and even hero, such person could simply sacrifice his life to save 2 others lives. It is what good starfleet officers do. It is what good guys do. Instead we've got an ugly and pathetic scene of Tuvix tried to save his life. I give it 1/10 and add it to the Pantheon of Trek Horrors permanently. 2x25 Resolutions I simply can't believe it. After such nightmare as "Tuvix" VOY traumatized my gentle psychic with something which can compete with "Tuvix" easily. They give us Janeway/Chakotay romance for a week. First of all, I couldn't believe how Janeway and Chakotay acted on planet. It looks like they went in 2 week family travel but not in exile for rest of thei lives. Oh yeah, I forgot Janeway believe that she is better than Doctor who spend about 20 days working on cure and failed and she'll solve all problems if she'll have enough baths. It takes only 5 minutes for Chakotay to make his move on Janeway. How writers expalined all that? Did he feel something for her from the beginning or they just dodn't now how to spend 20 minutes of episode? Didn't they realise that they smashed the last nail in Chakotay's character coffin? And best of all is that all this will be forgotten in the next episode. And by the way they even didn't give him an opportunity to say goodbye to the crew. Only Janeway made her speech. But it is just by the way. Writers even found time to humiliate Tuvok. They demonstated him as a person who uncapable of controling his own crew. He even didn't wear the 4 captain's badges. And Harry Kim making the riot... Come on! It's ridiculous! What can I say? Only that VOY move on next level. Now they do not just bad or horrible episodes. They learned to do loathsome episodes. 1/10 2x26 Basics, part I I enjoyed season finale even it plot of saving Chakotay's baby didn't please me all. The plan which Seska used was pretty smart especially how she disabled ship self-distruct function by destroying of special ship section. And a kamikazi Kazon who blown him self up inside Voyager.I suppose I saw something like this for the first time in Trek. I also must say that Voyager space battle was quite good and something telling me that Paris didn't die on the shuttle :biggrin: . I also must say that it was good thing that they returned Sutter (Brad Dourif's character) in action.I suppose he would be one of the peolpe who will safe Voyager. What I didn't get was how Kazons so quickly took over Voyager and how they repaired all technical difficulties in 1 minute. I even didn't ask reasons to leave Voayger's crew on some God forbidden planet. I also have a strong worries about next episode in which we without doubt will see volcanoes, big lizards and even tribes of primitive people (all of this they shown us in last 3 minutes) :oscar: . But for now I think I could be generous and give it 7/10. I really interested how they could take Voyager back. overall season 2 review: I ended my overall review of 1st season with words:"I don't know how to make Voyager even worse". It looks like it is not so hard - just devastate and humiliate all characters, create pathetic and uninteresting enemies (I still din't understand what kind of technological miracles kazons want from Voyager. Or did they do all of this because of replicators and transporters?), and a few horrible episodes which couldn't be enjoyed by anybody and here we go - average rating is 3,73, 6 acceptable and only 2 good episodes from 26(!!!) and the title of "Absolutely the Worst Trek Season" I've ever saw. I even don't want go into details of why and how it happened. My only hopes for this moment are: such horrible quality of episodes couldn't not to damage VOY rating so creators MUST really done SOMETHING if they really survived 7 season. And of course I'm impatiently waiting for 7of 9 debut and how she will change the show ( I read in Internet that she secures Voyager's ratings when they went down). I hope she'll make her debut somewhere in the middle of 3rd season. And the last though. My apology to VOY fans (if there are any on this Board) but I think that this 2 seasons made a lot of damage to Trek-franchise and without doubt affected "Enterprise". It is simply not fair that such show as VOY got 7 seasons and ENT only 4. :hissyfit: Edited by sipovic, 2 Sep 2008, 11:10.
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| Rigil Kent | 2 Sep 2008, 13:46 Post #14 |
Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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OMG ... this line of yours
is hysterical! I'm still giggling! I wish I could add something about VOY, but I had stopped watching Trek when it came on and only saw the occasional episode of it, so... |
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| sipovic | 3 Sep 2008, 05:36 Post #15 |
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Cultist
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Thanks Rigil, I hope you're feeling better now)
It looks like that not only you but many people didn't look VOY at all ( It explained why some of you so harsh with some average or above average ENT episodes. You just didn't see a real horrors! After 2 VOY seasons I found absolutely new appreciation to Enterprise and it's quality and professionalism of people who did it. Of course it had it's own stinkers, but they never degrades to VOY level. So may be you should see a few more episodes of VOY to get a new appreciation for DS9 and ENT :thumbsup: |
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| sipovic | 3 Sep 2008, 05:52 Post #16 |
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Cultist
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3x01 Basics, part II There were a lot of very good thing things in this episode. First of all, they give a real "push" to Paris. He destroyed a Kazon ship, brought Talaxian help, created a plan and even found a way to send it to Doctor and all of this by himself. I must say I never believed that producers will allow somebody else but Janeway to do so many things. I'm pleased that I was wrong. I also enjoyed Doctor and Sutter perfomances. Doctor not just was very helpful in liberation of Voyager he made one good quote after another ( "I'm not simply a hologram, I'm a starfleet hologram" and "a hologram and sociopath may be no match to a Kazon army" were my favorite). And Brad Dourif not just gave a wonderful perfomance as he did it before he was a key person in saving Voyager by disabling phasers. I also like a scene where he killed about 6 or 7 Kazons in 15 seconds. I suppose in such circumstances his death was inevitable but still I feel pity . It was such a wonderful character. It especially bad that creators make a serious mistake spending half of episode showing rest of crew trying to survive on wild planet. All my worries about volcanoes, giant snakes and cave people became true. All of it was extremely unappropriate on the background of 3 real heroes (PAris-Doctor-Sutter) who really save Voyager and all the crew. As for Seska death, I felt nothing. Sutter's death without doubt cared me more. I hope that with her death all this Kazon nonsence will finally end. And I like that doctor found that Chakotay wasn't a father of Seska's baby which removed another bad storyline from show. In total if not "Janeway's Survivor Show" I'll rate "Basics, part II" much higher. 6/10 3x02 Flashback It was the best Tuvok centered episode so far. Intriguing plot of some Tuvok's repressed memories with little girl falling from mountain surprisingly move action in Tuvok's youth, in TOS era. I was really glad to saw Captain Sulu and Yanice Rand. Creators chose a very good place to begun a story - from the events of "Star Trek VI - undiscovered country" and Sulu attempt to rescue Kirk from Klingon prison. And this time they shown things that wasn't in movie. I also like that producers didn't try to spare money and gave us a few very good computer graphics with Nebula, Klingons ships and "Exelsior". I also liked Janeway's speech about old school captains, except of course her remarks about that TOS-era officers couldn't survive a week in present starfleet. It 's not for the worst Trek Captain to judge what Spock & Kirk could and could not do. I suppose this concrete episode developed Tuvok's character more than 2 previous seasons. As young person he reminded me T'pol of first ENT episodes - same arrogance, same superiority, same doubt in Humans. It also very intersting that he never wanted to go to Starfleet and just fulfill his obligation in front of his parents. It's impressive how strongly he changed from this time even if he looks the same person outwardly. The real disappointment was a revelation that instead some mystery from Tuvok past we've got some kind of parasite which lived inside him for 80 years. But despite of this I rate "Flashback" 7/10. 3x03 The Chute To bad that VOY couldn't make a record with 3 adequate episodes in a row. "The Chute" was dark, slow and rather unintersting about Kim/Paris harsh days in "weird alien prison" where special devise is used to make everybody aggressive. It had good Paris/Kim scenes but it simply couldn't be count as "bottle episode" because too much interference of unpleasant background characters and there weren't any progress in their relationship. They were friends before episode they were same friends in the end. As I said they were few good scenes but they didn't save the episode. 3/10 3x04 The Swarm The story about Voyager went through territory of mysterious aliens who lives as swarm wasn't very impressive but still ok. The only interesting thing about it that decision to go through alien territory was made against starfleet regulation (which was pointed by Tuvok) but Janeway didn't care about it. It's funny how she chooses which federation rules are important and which not. And after it she had effrontery enough to lecture everybody about sanctity of directives. But wonderful b-plot with Doctor losing his memory impressed me very much. Here was simply astonishing acting by Robert Picardo who not only played as two really different characters ( Zimmerman/Doctor holograms) but even performed opera (I suppose not for the last time). Also I suppose this was a first episode where Paris made a move on B'elana Torres. SO I think their relationship will begin to evolve in nearby episodes. 6/10 |
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| sipovic | 5 Sep 2008, 07:06 Post #17 |
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Cultist
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3x05 False Profit Last thing I expected to see was a Ferengi episode on VOY. It was fun that creators remembered an old TNG episode when Ferengi tried to buy a wormhole but later 2 of them was sucked by unstable wormhole into Delta quadrant. So 7 years later Voyager found them on some planet pretending to be a prophets and ruling as kings forcing their values to the people of this planet which of course didn't satisfy Janeway. I found all this episode is imbrued with feeling of nostalgia. Nostalgia about TNG. We had here not only 2 ferengi, we also had Neelix pretend to be ferengi (Ethan Philips played ferengi before in TNG) and Michael Ensign who played a town's drunkard( this actor played in each trek-shows except only TOS). And all this episode was very similar to TNG episodes: instead of action voyager tried to outwit their enemy and many other thing that hard to expalain in writing. But I never was a TNG fan and I found this episode rather disappointing. It was not only slow, but also filled with "Ferengi humor" (which always made me feel a huge spectre of emotions from annoyance to oppression, but enjoyment in extremely rare occasions). And of course our favorite captain may be succeeded in removing ferengi from planet but what she forgot to do is to remove all cultural influence which they made for7 years. So it was not only slow and unfunny, it was also pointless. 4/10 3x06 Remember During Voyager transport a group of telepaths to their homeland B'elana Torres is beginning to see a strange dreams. Later she understood that it is memory of one of telepath which contained dirty little secret of their nation - an act of henocide. Well this is exactly all story of this episode. Half of it was taken by "dreams" - very boring bad written scenes from soap opera and all rest were righteous "hidden messages" to audience, trivial phylosophical quetions and ethical dilemmas, anything but Star Trek. 2/10 3x07 Sacred Ground I extermely dislike this episode. First of all after DS9 I suppose VOY script writers must stay away from religion as far as possible especially if they didn't take matter seriously. The only thing they did is renamed Prophets into Spirits. Plot about Kess entered temple and something made her went in coma was very weak. And to save her Janeway decided to go through some kind of rediculous ritual to "reach spirits". She was told that rituals are meaningless but she still decided to go through tests. In the beginning of ritual she met 3 elders who asked he to join them. 3! From this moment for everybody became obvious that this are the real spirits. Well for everybody but Janeway. And because of her stupidity I forced to watch about 15 minutes how Janeway looked at stone, drawn pictures, climed on mountain without any reason. Then she returned to elders and they told to bring Kess and herself into temple again to get another electicity hit but this time WITH FAITH. So they went in temple and Kess miracly cured. Wow! So that exatly how must look episode about religious dilemmas. But the most fatal mistake was of course to show me half naked Janeway. After such outrage on me 1/10 is the only possible rating for "Sacred round". The first official "stinker" of 3rd season. |
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| sipovic | 6 Sep 2008, 07:18 Post #18 |
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Cultist
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3x08,09 Future Ends, part 1 & 2 The plot of this episode was absolutely pathetic. Voyager was founded responsible for the big explosion in 29th century. Come on! It simply rubbish! It more sound like excuse more then a story. Isn't really more effective for temporal forces of 29th century to investigate what happened instead trying to destoy Voyager? And I simply can't believe that ship of 24th century could beat ship of 29th century. And then temporal rift thrown both ships in 20th century when we shall hear that some business man build a time machine and blew up the future. I suppose this script wasn't nominated on Oscar. And I really didn't understand why it must be a 2-parter episode. It hadn't any original or intersting moments that wasn't used in similar episodes before. The only entersting scene was Neelix and KEss watching soap opera. As for action I simply can't understand how a trained crew of starship from future loses again and again to a lonely amateur with some advance technologies. The only good thing which happens was doctor got a mobile emitter and now he can move everywhere which means futurre stories with Doctor wouldn't be only in sickbay and holodeck. And I must it was amusing scene when Chakotay and Torres crashed on the territory of extremists rednecks which told them that "goverment is a beast". But all of this was simply not enough to make a adequate episode. 4/10 3x10 Warlord This was very similar to DS9 's episode where spirit of a villain transfered from dead body to Bashir. But here it was a legendary warlord who changed his dead body and "jumped" into Kess. I think this episode could possibly be not bad if it was some kind of mystery, investigation and nobody didn't know that Kess is not Kess as it works in DS9 may be not very impressivebut in total acceptable. But here creators deside to give 2/3 of screen time to Kess. So it means that a destiny of episode depened only on her. And she simply couldn't do it. I always believed that there is only (the most important) one thing which distinguishes a good actor from mediocre. It is his ability to make audience BELIEVE in what he do despite how. Despite wearing black leather, making evil and ugly faces, loud yelling and punishing everybody actress Jenifer Lien didn't convince me at all. I suppose portrait evil is simply not her or may be it is just lack of talent it doesn't really matter. I can't give it more 4/10. And the last funny moment - creators of VOY afraid to make a lesbian kiss between Kess (posessed by warlord) and his wife. I found it curious especially whe they didn't afraid to do it between Jadzia and her "wife from previous life" on DS9. Of course it isn't important but just funny. 3x11 The Q And The Grey Voyager and Q didn't get along at all . Especially with story like Q want to mate with Janeway to have a son. And as much I enjoyed John de Lance perfomance I simply couldn't enjoy an episode when first part is unintelligible comedy where Q chasing Janeway all around and tried "to charm her" and second part of episode was a delirious Civil War in Q-continuum (because of Q which commited suicide in previous season) which was delivered absolutely serious. It simply not right for episode to swing it mood from comedy to drama then back to comedy each 5 minutes. It looked very unnatural and artificial. Well I hope it would be not early then season 4 when I'll see Q again and this time it would be not just grimaces and chuckles but a good story behind it. 3/10 3x12 Macrocosm I enjoyed "Macrocosm" especially it's first part when Neelix and Janeway returned to Voyager from peaceful negotiations and found no crew on board. At first it was like a good horror - classical worrying music, unusual camera angles strange noises and sounds, running silhouettes in the corridors. Especially when Janeway left alone when some alien carried away Neelix. It was almost 5-7 minutes without speaking. Just creepy music and weird sound. It was wonderful. I also found amusing Janeway in wet t-shirt with big gun in "Ripley-style". Too bad that second part of episode has swabbed most part of good impression. When we have heard that it was not alien but some kind of virus and again creator have lowered Chakotay which did not manage with it as captain. And all what it needed to stop this virus is to spray some kind of antidote on one of the deck. It to shame that from 120 crewmembers only "Wonder Woman" could accomplish that. 6/10 3x13 Fair Trade Voyager reached the point territory for which Neelix didn't know. At near by trade station he tried to find a map of new region. Suddenly he found his old friend which saved him from prison. He promised to get him a map if he'll help him in one "simple trade". "Simple trade" turned out to be a drug deal which ended with death of one of drug dealer. While investigstion is going Neelix is fighting with his conscience and confess in the end a helped to cought a big drug dealer. I don't like Neelix. This story didn't give him additional points. The fact that he was smuggler in past didn't make him more intersting. Ethan Philips and actor who played his friend didn't give any unusually good perfomances. Episode was average and watchable. I suppose it was a maximum which it really could get. I found new character ensign Vorik, a vulcan from engineering, pretty adequate. It's nice to see a first show which have more than one vulcan. I hope he wouldn't instantly disappear as he instantly appear. And by the way I couldn't mention hard punishment that Janeway gived Neelix for drug dealing, participation of murder and ostruction of justice - 2 weeks of cleaning some conduits! What can I say - severe punishment. 5/10 3x14 Alter Ego Oh, how I'm tired of "romance for hour" episodes. 3 Full seasons didn't pass yet and we already had such episodes for almost half of the crew. Now it's a Harry Kim and Tuvok's time. First fall in love with person from Neelix holo-program and came to Tuvok to learn how to dispose of emotion. This part was already enough to ruin an episode but there was more. Holowoman fall in love with Tuvok and when he tried to erased her character she appear in Tuvok's quarters and gained control of Voyager. Idea of hologram pursueing a real person is original but realisation... Instead some interesting turns it is realized that this holowoman was controled by alien female from cloaked ship and when Tuvok confronted her she let voyager go, and in general that was all. It is officially second 'stinker' of the season. Funny that both stinkers was directed bt VOY's actors. ("Sacred Ground" was directed by Robert Duncan McNeil and "Alter Ego" - by Robert Picardo). 1/10 3x15 Coda "Coda" was extremely bad episode. It was awful combination of "reset buttons" (5!!!) and telepathic alien. It may be a record holder on amount of the tasteless moments. There were all - Janeway died in shuttle crash, Janeway died from rare disease, Janeway choked by alien, spirit of Janeway father, Janeway's trivial burial... I could enumerate further but I have bored. And the motivation of alien was barely understandable. He wanted that Janeway went with him in some matrix but didn't expalain for what purpose and at the end threatened new meeting which never be consisted, I hope. 1/10 |
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| chrisis1033 | 7 Sep 2008, 13:36 Post #19 |
Board Slacker
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I have watchd all 7 seasons of Voyager. I found that Seasons 3, 4, 5 were the best in my opinion, however keep in mind that Voyager at its best is still.... well... Voyager. But there are some good ones in there. |
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| sipovic | 8 Sep 2008, 04:54 Post #20 |
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Cultist
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I suppose one this phrase is a best definition of Voyager. It has unique ability to not be able to overcame it's own mediocrity |
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4:07 PM Jul 29
