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| Random Movie thoughts; Both the Prequels and the Originals | |
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| Topic Started: 19 Feb 2008, 16:24 (2,002 Views) | |
| Rigil Kent | 19 Feb 2008, 16:24 Post #1 |
Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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So, today after I got back from class, instead of working on some of the homework that I should have been doing, I watched Revenge of the Sith for the first time in a really long time. And you know what? It was better than I remembered. Sure, there are some missteps, IMO, but the final saber duel on Mustafar was pretty good. Anyway, a couple of things occurred to me as I watched the movie. First, Anakin is an idiot. Heh. That didn't come out like I quite wanted it to, but in the final battle between him and Obi-Wan, it seems pretty obvious which one of the two is the really intelligent one. Kenobi may have kept giving up ground and "retreating" through the battle, but in doing so, he seemed to be leading Skywalker right into the mouth of hell. And, Anakin, being a dolt compared to Kenobi, simply followed. Second, crappy saber duel aside, Mace thoroughly schooled Palpatine. It's kind of ironic (and a little sad) that Windu's pissy attitude toward Anakin since The Phantom Menace was ultimately responsible for Skywalker's decision. If Mace hadn't been such an asshole to Anakin, do you think Skywalker would have lopped off Windu's arm and gone to the Dark Side? I don't. So really, the victory of the Dark Side was entirely Mace Windu's fault. Third, Ewan MacGregor rocks. I loved his Kenobi throughout this movie. When he almost begs Yoda to send him after Sidious, you can actually feel his lack of desire to face Anakin. And to me, the whole "from a certain point of view" thing about how Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin makes sense now. Kenobi needs to believe that after he so thoroughly screwed the pooch. Fourth, I hated the Palpatine saber duels. Period. The one where he kills off the Masters and then fought Mace was absolute crap. I think, that if I had been editing this thing, I would have had Palpatine ignite his saber and then WIPE to Anakin arriving. Then, he rushes in, discovers the three dead Masters, keeps running and enters the big room where Mace has his saber at Palpy's throat. And the big room would be thoroughly fraked up. Fifth, I wanted to smack Lucas for some of the stupid CG decisions he made. The absurd somersault that Dooku does in the beginning was totally unnecessary. It would have been better, I think, if Dooku jumped down the stairs like Vader did at Bespin. As a matter of fact, I would have liked to force him to not use CG at all during the saber fights (apart from backgrounds and the like). A discerning eye can tell when a body is real or when its CG, and there were too many of the dumb CG bits in here. Sixth, the opening space battle was awesome ... until they got silly with R2. And those Jedi fighters kick ass. I actually think I may like them a tiny bit better than X-Wings. Seventh, the visual of Lord Vader leading the 501st Legion into the Jedi temple is awesome. This one... Posted Image Eighth, Anakin's decision to go Dark needed some work ... it was just too abrupt. That said, his sudden reversal in Jedi was pretty abrupt too, so maybe that's normal with the Force. Of course, given that he murdered the Younglings, I hope that glowing hologram thing we see the dead Jedi as is some sort of Hell, 'cause he doesn't deserve redemption. Ninth, the "romance" dialog between Anakin and Padme made my teeth hurt. It was atrociously bad. More thoughts about the movies as they occur to me... |
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| tennisgirl | 19 Feb 2008, 17:17 Post #2 |
Rear Admiral
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Hehehe, he really is...
Ok, yeah, you have a point. And this is really hard for me to admit since I like Mace. But the man could have used a better approach. Check out Yoda. The green guy knew all along that Anakin was messed up, but he never made him feel like the bad seed...
Yeah, he most certainly does. :drool:
That seriously scared me first time I watched the movie...
I complained a lot about the killing of the Younglings. I seems just too cruel. I know it is supposed to show us that there is no return for Anakin at this point, but it was too much.
Heh, that is so true. And I actually like the stuff on Ep. II very much. It's just that by this movie I was thinking what a total jerk Anakin was going to turn out to be, and was pissed at Padme for being sort of blind to the whole situation. The romance seemed... fake by this point. Natalie Portman still pulls out some very decent acting. |
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| Jedikatie | 19 Feb 2008, 17:30 Post #3 |
Rygel's Chief Engineer, Throne Sled Maintenance and Repair
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I loved Ewan MacGregor as Obi-Wan.
:) But then, he was my favorite character in the prequels... Yeah the CGI was a bit much at times in the movies. I think Dooku's stuff is probably one of the most egregious uses of it in this whole movie... And yeah, that image of Anakin and the stormtroopers is one of my favorites. Did you happen to get the soundtrack for this film when it was out? The CD came with a bonus 'music video' DVD in it (with something like 15 different selections, going from TPM all the way through RotJ) which uses not only footage from the movies, but still art and assorted other things related to whoever the particular piece of music is supposed to be about, and there's a wonderful sequence using that footage of Anakin and the stormtroopers (among others) in the bit showing his fall... I was most definitely rolling my eyes at Anakin and Padme's romance before this movie even got started. I don't know what it is about Lucas, but he sure can't write a romance... all of their dialogue sounded so corny and unnatural... |
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| Rigil Kent | 19 Feb 2008, 17:32 Post #4 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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I've got the soundtracks for all of the movies. Remember, I was a Star Wars nut long before ENT drew my attention.
I'm not sure I really agree with that. To me, it seemed like the only person who treated Anakin correctly was Obi-Wan (up until he lopped off his legs and his other arm, of course.) It seemed pretty obvious to me that Kenobi knew that Anakin was sleeping with Padme yet, to his credit, said nothing to his superiors about it because he realized that Skywalker needed something that the Order wasn't providing him. I mean, look at what Yoda does when Anakin (the Chosen One) shows up with that worry about losing someone he cares for/loves. All the little green troll says is basically "let them go." We've seen that Anakin won't let things go, so that was entirely the wrong thing to say. Plus, I blame Yoda for the intractability of the Jedi Order at this point.
Really? My initial reaction was "Cooooooooollllll..."
I liked it actually. It was a ballsy directorial decision and showed just how dark he had become. The problem is, for me anyhow, is that he seemed to go to the Dark Side because of a bad dream. Um ... Luke found his aunt and uncle burned alive, saw his new mentor figure cut down in front of him, lost his best friend (Biggs), got his hand lopped off, discovered his most hated enemy was his dad, and still managed to stay in the Light Side. Leia saw her entire damned planet get blown up. I remain convinced that Anakin was just seriously screwed up. Pity the doctors in a galaxy far, far away hadn't heard of prozac.
I don't. The fireplace scene in EpII causes my teeth to hurt. Now Han and Leia have some spectacular moments in Empire... |
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| Captain X | 19 Feb 2008, 21:03 Post #5 |
"Vice" Admiral
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I don't care for any of the prequels. Anakin was a whiny loser and there was nothing about the lead-up to his becoming dark that was convincing. Not to mention all the continuity frak-ups, and I mean really obvious ones at that. |
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| Rigil Kent | 19 Feb 2008, 21:15 Post #6 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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What continuity frak-ups are you talking about? The only two that immediately come to mind to me are Qui-Gon being Kenobi's instructor (which they sort of explain away with Yoda being the initial instructor for all padawans) and Leia remembering her mother. Apart from that, I'm not aware of any significant continuity FUBARs. |
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| Captain X | 19 Feb 2008, 21:21 Post #7 |
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"Vice" Admiral
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Kenobi: "That boy was our last hope." Yoda:"No, there is another." So Kenobi didn't know that Leia was Luke's twin sister, or that Luke even had a sister, yet in Ep III, he held both of them, and gave Leia to her adoptive father from Alderan. That's just one thing - there's actually a site out there that lists them all pretty well. |
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| Rigil Kent | 19 Feb 2008, 21:26 Post #8 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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Utter ridiculousness. I've already argued that point and its easy enough to ignore: Kenobi watched Luke grow up. All of his hopes for victory were invested in Luke's victory. He was too close to Luke (in conflict with the Jedi code, I'm sure). Further, Leia was trained as a Senator, and grew up on a planet that was "peaceful" and "had no weapons." Hence, as far as Kenobi was concerned, Luke was their last hope. And further, as someone familiar with how screenplays work, surely you get the entire point of that exchange. |
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| Captain X | 19 Feb 2008, 21:40 Post #9 |
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"Vice" Admiral
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Yeah, I got that Kenobi didn't know that Leia was Luke's sister, and neither did Lucas initially or he wouldn't have set them up to get hooked up in the first movie. |
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| Rigil Kent | 19 Feb 2008, 21:42 Post #10 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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Forgot to add this. Factor in this element for Kenobi as well: if Luke falls to the Dark Side or is killed by Vader on Bespin, who is going to train Leia? He (Ben) is already dead and Yoda clearly isn't long for this world (especially if Luke Turns), so his argument that Luke is their last hope makes sense to me... Leia is also a politician, and we know from his argument with Anakin in Episode II that Obi-Wan thinks all politicians are lying scumbags. |
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| Captain X | 19 Feb 2008, 22:06 Post #11 |
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"Vice" Admiral
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I also know where you got that argument from, which i guess makes me one of the "prequel haters" ;) I'm not a prequel hater in concept, just in execution, and I actually fault the Star Wars versions every bit if not more than I do Enterprise. I'm also not fond of the mistakes made in any of the other series, though VOY and ENT were generally the worst offenders. Plenty of people will defend those series to the extent that the blogger who wrote that point-for-point defense for the Star Wars prequels has done. |
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| Rigil Kent | 19 Feb 2008, 22:20 Post #12 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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Hey, I've gone on record stating that, for the most part, I was disappointed with the prequels. Compared to the original trilogy, I found them really lacking. I mean, Revenge of the Sith is the best out of the three new ones but compared to the majesty that is The Empire Strikes Back, its utter crap. I think Lucas is a great "idea" guy, but he should have gotten a real director to direct the movies. That said, I'll be the first to admit that each of the prequels did have some good points that were worth noting. I've suffered through Jar-Jar in order to watch that wicked cool lightsaber battle in Episode I. I really dug Obi-Wan the Investigator in Episode II. Etc. Etc. And that said, I don't see the "mistakes" in the prequels that are so prevalent in Trek. A lot of the problems that people seem to have are rooted in the same problems that ENT had: fanon. Everyone had certain preconceptions about what the Clone Wars would be like, or how the Duel would happen, or what the exact relationship Owen & Beru had to Luke, and when those preconceptions are ruined, people don't like it. Were the prequels perfect? Good God, no. I was a mondo huge Star Wars fan until RotS came out and I got so frustrated with the franchise. But they had sufficient good points that I can (sometimes) overlook the bad. Besides, the OT has Ewoks in it and a really lame dance sequence so... |
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| Rigil Kent | 2 Mar 2008, 20:13 Post #13 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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I watched a little bit of The Phantom Menace today, mostly because I didn't feel like doing a damned thing and there was absolute crap on television. Generally, my thoughts about its substandard quality remain intact. The dialog was mediocre at best, the Neimodians and the Gungans were actually more offensive than I recalled, and Jake Lloyd was horrible as Anakin. That said, Darth Maul looked awesome and I loved watching Ray Park move the way he did (I can't wait to see him play Snake Eyes in the G.I. Joe movie they're making). Qui-Gon totally kicked ass as a maverick Jedi Master and the visuals of Coruscant were breathtaking. Watching this movie got me to thinking, though: if Qui-Gon had survived, would he have been the best choice to train Anakin? Seriously, the kid clearly has a lot of issues, but Qui-Gon isn't necessarily the best role model for a young kid to emulate. He obeyed the rules when he thought they made sense and flatly ignored some that he found to be dumb. Yeah, he's old enough and wise enough to know when to pull back, but would a kid like Anakin know when to step back? In a lot of ways, it seems like Anakin in EpII and EpIII was more like Qui-Gon than he had any reason to be... Oh, another gripe about TPM. That Ric Olie dude. What's that? You don't recognize the name? He's the block of wood who was piloting Amidala's ship. Man, he caused my teeth to hurt... |
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| Kevin Thomas Riley | 10 Mar 2008, 17:31 Post #14 |
Jolene Blalock Worshipper
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All right, since I got my RotS DVD today I had to watch it, which I now have. I haven't seen it since it was in theatres. And I'm a bit surprised that it was actually better than I remembered. It still has all those prequel faults, but it wasn't atrocious. It had its moments. I did like the opening very much. It was a cool fight above Coruscant and that crash was pretty neat. I actually think they should've used X-wing fighters. It would make sense for the rebellion in 20 years time to still use them, since they're, you know, rebels, and have to make do with what's available. They don't have a factory to make state of the art fighters like the Empire does. I also liked the Mustafar duel, even if it was a tad overdone at times, what with them jumping on and off melting cranes and such. I think Obi-Wan should've sliced up Anakin's/Vader's face with his saber though. We saw in RotJ that Vader had a scar like that on his face. And I have to agree with Rigil about how Obi-Wan/Ewan McGregor rocked. A very good character when a lot of others seemed lacking. You could really feel for him and what he had to do - "You were the chosen one!" I'm afraid I cannot say the same for Anakin/Hayden Christensen. He was marginally better than in AotC, but he still made my teeth hurt (great expression BTW) whenever he spoke. And his scenes with Padmé also precipitated some dental aching, even if they were better, relatively speaking, than the really atrocious scenes between them in AotC. I didn't mind the Palps/Windu fight that much. But the Palps/Yoda one was quite silly. I could've done without General Grievous too. My main gripe with this movie is, as I've stated before, that the explanation for Anakin's turn to the dark side isn't very satisfactory. Basically it boils down to him having a bad dream. Say what? C'mon, George, is that the best you could come up with? You've had 30 years to figure this out and this is all you could think of? Puh-leeze! I also think the Jedis have themselves entirely to blame. What a frakked up order! When Anakin comes to Yoda to speak about his fears, all the little green troll can say is that he has to let go, to not allow any attachments with people. What are they? Emotionally suppressed Vulcans or something? Robots? If you can't allow to feel love (or hate for that matter, as in hatred of things unjust and evil) then how can you be trusted with keeping the Republic and democracy safe? Heh, in a perverse way Palpatine was right. The Jedi staged an attempt at a coup'état and nobody elected them. The Senate may be corrupt and all, but technically that is where Palpatine got his powers from. On a small sidenote, watching the credits I noticed that they guy who played Tarkin (seen briefly at the end) was Wayne Pygram, better known as Scorpius. Also, Jeremy Bulloch - the original Boba Fett - had a small part as a Clone Trooper captain. |
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| Jedikatie | 10 Mar 2008, 17:38 Post #15 |
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Rygel's Chief Engineer, Throne Sled Maintenance and Repair
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^ Yeah, I knew Wayne was playing Tarkin in that movie. I remember it being discussed quite a bit on the Farscape boards I frequented at the time... Sometime I might actually buy those DVDs... |
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| Rigil Kent | 10 Mar 2008, 17:44 Post #16 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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Actually, there should have been Y-Wings, not X-Wings. According to the EU stuff that Lucasarts released many, many moons ago (back in the 80s and 90s), the Y-Wing was supposed to be a mainstay of the Clone Wars era and the X-Wing was supposed to be relatively new to the scene (brought by the defecting experts from the company Incom).
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I thought it was one of the worst fight scenes in a SWars movie to date.
The best part about Palpatine is not that he's a complete liar ... but how selectively he uses the truth. Everything he said - everything - is true ... from a certain point of view.
That's not accurate. He was the pilot of Bail Organa's ship, the guy who looked back to Organa when that dude Mas Amedda (I think, Palpatine's horned lackey) informed Organa that the Chancellor had called an emergency session of the Senate (to declare himself Emperor). All clonetroopers were portrayed by Temuira Morrison (sp?). |
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| Kevin Thomas Riley | 10 Mar 2008, 17:59 Post #17 |
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Jolene Blalock Worshipper
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Ah, OK! I'm not familiar with much of the EU stuff. Still, it would've been nice to see some real X-wings as well.
Exactly! Palps is really something of my favourite evil. I remember thinking he totally rocked back when I saw RotJ for the first time back in the summer of '83. Yeah, I turned to the dark side at the tender age of 14. :eviltbbs:
Ah, of course. My mistake. It just listed captain So-and-so and I just assumed... BTW, Mon Mothma was also listed in the credits. Where could she be seen? Another thing that bugs me about all the Star Wars movies are that many supporting characters are named but never referred to such on screen. Unless you go online or buy companion guides, books etc. you'll never know what someone is called. The same goes for many types of ships and droids. |
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| Rigil Kent | 10 Mar 2008, 18:02 Post #18 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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Check out the cut scenes. She was part of a subplot for Padme that was basically hinted at the birth of the Rebellion. Posted Image |
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| Kevin Thomas Riley | 10 Mar 2008, 18:24 Post #19 |
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Jolene Blalock Worshipper
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Will do! So I suppose she wasn't in the final cut of the movie? Oh, I just added a slogan to my election banner. What do you think? Does it look better or worse with that text? And I changed to another Palps avatar. Maybe I should make a RotS-Palps avatar? |
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| Rigil Kent | 10 Mar 2008, 18:29 Post #20 |
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Professional (but unpaid) troublemaker
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I think she's in the background, but for the most part, her scenes were completely excised. From my recollections of those cut scenes, however, it was probably for the best because, although they gave Padme something to do that wasn't bemoaning what has happened to Anakin, they were boring as hell. Those scenes were fine in the context of the novelization, but they would have just slowed the movie down too much.
Works for me. |
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